I think you’re totally underestimating yourself as a writer and the appeal of your column. I definitely appreciate the great books, but I read your work on Substack because of what you, personally, have to say on the topic. Keep up the great work! I always enjoy reading your take. 🤙
Indian-born and raised filmmaker, lived in the States since 18. I loved this piece. I've also long wanted to engage with Indian classic texts but assumed I wouldn't get to them in this lifetime. Pls keep writing about your learnings from the Sanskrit epics.
This is very honest and interesting -- about your own shifting sense of your own dharma. And if it is to protect great books, perhaps you should teach? (As well as your Substack, which you know I like very much.) I'm a professor, know far too much of the perils of the academy, but teach in some capacity, somewhere? I'm confident you would be great at it, and good readers would grow. Just a thought by way of encouragement.
Christianity makes more sense if you think of damnation as reincarnation and revelation as the fulfillment of the law and the exit from the wheel of karma, which is essentially the lessons you keep having to learn until you develop the spiritual faculty that is the fulfillment of those lessons.
Thinking religions are separate is one of the biggest illusions.
I never could reconcile a loving God that sent people to hell permanently. Especially after I grew up and learned that most evil is stupidity. No just and loving God would send their beloved child to hell forever because they were kind of dumb.
I haven’t yet read the Mahabharata, but the Hindu cosmic philosophies are what ring most true to me in a satisfying way. I wish we knew what soma was, that shit worked.
“It’s not lost on me that whenever I spoke on behalf of myself—my own vision and my own creativity—nobody particularly cared. But when I spoke on behalf of the Great Books, suddenly there was much more interest.” <— I think what I appreciate most about your newsletter is not just that you talk about Great Books, but that you take that context and apply it to contemporary fiction and the many trials and tribulations associated with it—reading, writing, critiquing. And that this perspective feels both unique and also timeless, or somehow outside of time. As for your fiction, it simply never crossed my path before - which I’m sure has less to do with the quality of the fiction and more due to there being a MUCH higher population of fiction writers than classics-contemporary-cultural-critiquers. But now that you are in my radar I also am reading and enjoying your fiction! My husband sometimes says that true artists these days are the ones who are shaping their lives into a story worth watching; I don’t know if I agree with that and I certainly don’t feel like trying to shape my life for the public in any sort of way - but the point is your substack persona is itself unique and fascinating and has made me excited to read your newsletter every week!
I am fascinated by the current intellectual discourse on Indian mythology. I think there is a lot of ancient wisdom being rediscovered which is exciting. Wondering if you had any thoughts on Devdutta Pattanaik and his books on the subject.
I recently heard Devdutta Pattanaik on the Seen and Unseen podcast and was intrigued by his ideas about the Indian mythology.
I started reading his book, Culture, which is an easy read and a good overview of his theories and insights. I want to read his book, My Gita, next. Would love to hear your thoughts on any of his books or ideas.
I'm a strange reader for your substack because I've engaged very little with contemporary fiction, none at all with classical Indian literature, and have not read Middlemarch. I subscribed because I recognized you as one of the patrons for the History of Africa podcast and figured I'd see what you have to say.
I've found all of it interesting. I like your fiction that you've posted hear, and I've found your discussion of Hinduism and the Mahabharata to be really interesting and thought-provoking. I've also gained a lot from reading your discussions of the craft of writing--pretty much the only real discussion of writing as an art form I've previously engaged with is Orwell and Dierdre McCloskey. That said, to me the least interesting subject that you regularly talk about is your stance on contemporary fiction, I think because, since you don't like it, it doesn't inspire as much in you as your other topics. I don't *dislike* those posts, to be clear, and I like the fiction you've written reacting to what you don't like in contemporary modern fiction.
All of which is to say: from my perspective as a random and uninformed reader, you bring the most to your readers by reading the things that do something for you and showing/telling us.
Oh man, yes I am a big History of Africa patron =] One of my fave podcasts. Thanks for your perspective! Yes, hopefully will do more things I like and less I dislike in the future--that's definitely my hope.
NK: "The experience I’ve gotten from reading the Mahabharata is so far beyond what I’ve gotten from reading contemporary American literature that I honestly wonder…what is the point of the latter?"
I read essentially no English language fiction (whether American, British or anything else). Almost all the non-fiction that I read is in English, but almost none of the fiction. English language fiction just... doesn't do it for me. (In fact, I keep a list of all the books that I read, and I just checked: the last time I read an English language novel was back in 2015. Heh. It was "the Golden Notebook" by Doris Lessing. It was eh-okay, I suppose. I've read a little over 100 books since then, mostly fiction, but none of that fiction was in English. Well, the *non-fiction* books that I read were almost all in English.) My literary tastes lean Russian, and in fact, I learned Russian as an adult precisely so that I could read Russian literature in the original.
Which brings me to my question: do you feel the same way about Western fiction (broadly understood, i.e. including Russian) from the past 200 years or so as you do about contemporary American fiction? Does reading "the Brothers Karamazov" (or something else with a comparably august reputation) feel like a religious experience in the same way as the Mahabharata does? Or do you think there's something - different - about reading such an ancient text?
OMG, I mean….Russian literature is the best, no? Even reading Russian literature in translation provokes an extremely religious experience. I can’t imagine what it would be like in the original—surely extremely powerful. No idea what was in the water in 19th-century Russia, but there’s nothing else like Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy and Gogol and Chekhov anywhere else. Even 20th century Russian writers (I recently read a lot of Solzhenitsyn) are incredible.
I think for me, the Mahabharata has provoked a stronger reaction because I myself am Indian and of Hindu background.
Yours is a common complaint among smart and well read people when they develope a certain degree of insight. We all dance to Lila's tune. Krishna's constant admonition to Arjuna has always given me courage: understand your station in life, then live it. It's karmayoga, one of the four ways to union with the godhead, doing what you were born to without thought for yourself. In India the choice is made easier for you, there are four main castes that determine your social pathway. Here, we have only our awareness of who we believe ourselves to be and where our talents may lie. Yours are clearly shown in your essays. There's a line in the movie Zulu when a young soldier turns in fear to his Colour Sergeant and asks "why me?", to which his sergeant replies "Because you're here, lad, because you're here." There's solace in that seemingly cold statement. The trick is doing your best not for gain but because that's what you're expected to do, the role you have to play on Lila's stage.
Oh yeah it's not that we aren't happy they just released a new collection of Clarice Lispector’s short stories—in ten years when we actually get around to reading her, we will be happy these new translations of her books exist. But…they're the kind of books you read ten years after they come out, not the same month.
Thank you so much for this! It's frustrating to see that here in India, for far too long a particularly tedious, unimaginative approach to engaging with the classic epics has dominated, and the majoritarian Hindu nationalists will not permit anything else. The problem is that far too many people treat the epics as objects of veneration, rather than actual texts to read and to learn from, which is a pity, but also not unexpected.
Perhaps after reading the full unabridged Ramayana, you might consider checking out A.K Ramanujan's 'Three Hundred Ramayanas,' a philological masterpiece looking the various retellings and interpretations of the classic story from across South and Southeast Asia. I get the feeling you might enjoy it.
This is definitely an interesting thing to think about. One question I have: do you think it would totally undermine the kind of religious experiences you talk about if the reader is a Epicurean in the sense of being pretty convinced that the soul dissolves with the body? How much of the philosophical value of the book do you think is contingent on these sorts of religious/metaphysical commitments?
I could not really say. I mean, the book is largely about dharma--duty. I don't think karma and rebirth are necessarily inextricably linked to the idea of dharma. Jewish people have dharma of a kind--their duty to obey the covenant--and they don't really think much about the punishment or reward aspect of it. I think pagan religions in general take seriously the idea of man's duties to the Gods and to society, and they're less concerned by any reciprocal duties--a point of view that makes intuitive sense to me, personally.
Could you say more about what that religious experience actually consisted of? For instance, at about the age of 15 or 16 I read William Goldman's THE PRINCESS BRIDE, at around the same moment that I was thinking about evolution for the first time. I'd have to look up the exact quote (the internet is no help on this) but during one of the many extended asides about life not being fair the narrator has an epiphany that expecting life to be fair is the problem. "I felt like dancing," he says. And so did I. The pressure was off. There was nothing wrong with the universe. The disappointed idealist was dead, and I was a different person (or at least I tried to be) after that.
A more Great Books example would be the Book of Job from the Bible, which is the only one that ever spoke to me, and which I fundamentally disagreed with.
I don't necessarily think I can describe it further. It's a very long book, that's composed mostly of debates about the nature of dharma. I think, for me, what's become intuitive is the idea that we have a cosmic destiny--a dharma--that sits at the intersection of social role and personal inclination, and that it's something you can intuit through questioning and self-examination. Definitely not something I can explain, nor necessarily something I expect to be able to convince other people about in a blog post =]
I think you’re totally underestimating yourself as a writer and the appeal of your column. I definitely appreciate the great books, but I read your work on Substack because of what you, personally, have to say on the topic. Keep up the great work! I always enjoy reading your take. 🤙
Indian-born and raised filmmaker, lived in the States since 18. I loved this piece. I've also long wanted to engage with Indian classic texts but assumed I wouldn't get to them in this lifetime. Pls keep writing about your learnings from the Sanskrit epics.
Thank you!
This is very honest and interesting -- about your own shifting sense of your own dharma. And if it is to protect great books, perhaps you should teach? (As well as your Substack, which you know I like very much.) I'm a professor, know far too much of the perils of the academy, but teach in some capacity, somewhere? I'm confident you would be great at it, and good readers would grow. Just a thought by way of encouragement.
Maybe! It’s not the craziest idea….
+1 that what people should do is read Middlemarch! wonderful wonderful book.
Christianity makes more sense if you think of damnation as reincarnation and revelation as the fulfillment of the law and the exit from the wheel of karma, which is essentially the lessons you keep having to learn until you develop the spiritual faculty that is the fulfillment of those lessons.
Thinking religions are separate is one of the biggest illusions.
I've been thinking a lot about this comment, and I think it's a smart one. Thank you. It kind of makes perfect sense.
I never could reconcile a loving God that sent people to hell permanently. Especially after I grew up and learned that most evil is stupidity. No just and loving God would send their beloved child to hell forever because they were kind of dumb.
I agree that Hinduism might be true https://open.substack.com/pub/wollenblog/p/the-evidence-for-hinduism?r=2248ub&utm_medium=ios
I saw that! I liked that post of yours a lot =]
I haven’t yet read the Mahabharata, but the Hindu cosmic philosophies are what ring most true to me in a satisfying way. I wish we knew what soma was, that shit worked.
It might have been psychedelic. This book mostly uses Greek examples from the mystery religions, but the same argument might apply to soma?
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250207142/theimmortalitykey
I'm pretty sure Soma is mushrooms of some kind =]
“It’s not lost on me that whenever I spoke on behalf of myself—my own vision and my own creativity—nobody particularly cared. But when I spoke on behalf of the Great Books, suddenly there was much more interest.” <— I think what I appreciate most about your newsletter is not just that you talk about Great Books, but that you take that context and apply it to contemporary fiction and the many trials and tribulations associated with it—reading, writing, critiquing. And that this perspective feels both unique and also timeless, or somehow outside of time. As for your fiction, it simply never crossed my path before - which I’m sure has less to do with the quality of the fiction and more due to there being a MUCH higher population of fiction writers than classics-contemporary-cultural-critiquers. But now that you are in my radar I also am reading and enjoying your fiction! My husband sometimes says that true artists these days are the ones who are shaping their lives into a story worth watching; I don’t know if I agree with that and I certainly don’t feel like trying to shape my life for the public in any sort of way - but the point is your substack persona is itself unique and fascinating and has made me excited to read your newsletter every week!
Thank you so much. This comment really means a lot! Exactly what I am aiming for :)
I am fascinated by the current intellectual discourse on Indian mythology. I think there is a lot of ancient wisdom being rediscovered which is exciting. Wondering if you had any thoughts on Devdutta Pattanaik and his books on the subject.
I’d never heard of him until now! Any recs on where to start with him?
I recently heard Devdutta Pattanaik on the Seen and Unseen podcast and was intrigued by his ideas about the Indian mythology.
I started reading his book, Culture, which is an easy read and a good overview of his theories and insights. I want to read his book, My Gita, next. Would love to hear your thoughts on any of his books or ideas.
I'm a strange reader for your substack because I've engaged very little with contemporary fiction, none at all with classical Indian literature, and have not read Middlemarch. I subscribed because I recognized you as one of the patrons for the History of Africa podcast and figured I'd see what you have to say.
I've found all of it interesting. I like your fiction that you've posted hear, and I've found your discussion of Hinduism and the Mahabharata to be really interesting and thought-provoking. I've also gained a lot from reading your discussions of the craft of writing--pretty much the only real discussion of writing as an art form I've previously engaged with is Orwell and Dierdre McCloskey. That said, to me the least interesting subject that you regularly talk about is your stance on contemporary fiction, I think because, since you don't like it, it doesn't inspire as much in you as your other topics. I don't *dislike* those posts, to be clear, and I like the fiction you've written reacting to what you don't like in contemporary modern fiction.
All of which is to say: from my perspective as a random and uninformed reader, you bring the most to your readers by reading the things that do something for you and showing/telling us.
Oh man, yes I am a big History of Africa patron =] One of my fave podcasts. Thanks for your perspective! Yes, hopefully will do more things I like and less I dislike in the future--that's definitely my hope.
NK: "The experience I’ve gotten from reading the Mahabharata is so far beyond what I’ve gotten from reading contemporary American literature that I honestly wonder…what is the point of the latter?"
I read essentially no English language fiction (whether American, British or anything else). Almost all the non-fiction that I read is in English, but almost none of the fiction. English language fiction just... doesn't do it for me. (In fact, I keep a list of all the books that I read, and I just checked: the last time I read an English language novel was back in 2015. Heh. It was "the Golden Notebook" by Doris Lessing. It was eh-okay, I suppose. I've read a little over 100 books since then, mostly fiction, but none of that fiction was in English. Well, the *non-fiction* books that I read were almost all in English.) My literary tastes lean Russian, and in fact, I learned Russian as an adult precisely so that I could read Russian literature in the original.
Which brings me to my question: do you feel the same way about Western fiction (broadly understood, i.e. including Russian) from the past 200 years or so as you do about contemporary American fiction? Does reading "the Brothers Karamazov" (or something else with a comparably august reputation) feel like a religious experience in the same way as the Mahabharata does? Or do you think there's something - different - about reading such an ancient text?
OMG, I mean….Russian literature is the best, no? Even reading Russian literature in translation provokes an extremely religious experience. I can’t imagine what it would be like in the original—surely extremely powerful. No idea what was in the water in 19th-century Russia, but there’s nothing else like Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy and Gogol and Chekhov anywhere else. Even 20th century Russian writers (I recently read a lot of Solzhenitsyn) are incredible.
I think for me, the Mahabharata has provoked a stronger reaction because I myself am Indian and of Hindu background.
Yours is a common complaint among smart and well read people when they develope a certain degree of insight. We all dance to Lila's tune. Krishna's constant admonition to Arjuna has always given me courage: understand your station in life, then live it. It's karmayoga, one of the four ways to union with the godhead, doing what you were born to without thought for yourself. In India the choice is made easier for you, there are four main castes that determine your social pathway. Here, we have only our awareness of who we believe ourselves to be and where our talents may lie. Yours are clearly shown in your essays. There's a line in the movie Zulu when a young soldier turns in fear to his Colour Sergeant and asks "why me?", to which his sergeant replies "Because you're here, lad, because you're here." There's solace in that seemingly cold statement. The trick is doing your best not for gain but because that's what you're expected to do, the role you have to play on Lila's stage.
As much as I adore small presses, there’s a great deal of truth in your second footnote.
Oh yeah it's not that we aren't happy they just released a new collection of Clarice Lispector’s short stories—in ten years when we actually get around to reading her, we will be happy these new translations of her books exist. But…they're the kind of books you read ten years after they come out, not the same month.
Thank you so much for this! It's frustrating to see that here in India, for far too long a particularly tedious, unimaginative approach to engaging with the classic epics has dominated, and the majoritarian Hindu nationalists will not permit anything else. The problem is that far too many people treat the epics as objects of veneration, rather than actual texts to read and to learn from, which is a pity, but also not unexpected.
Perhaps after reading the full unabridged Ramayana, you might consider checking out A.K Ramanujan's 'Three Hundred Ramayanas,' a philological masterpiece looking the various retellings and interpretations of the classic story from across South and Southeast Asia. I get the feeling you might enjoy it.
This is definitely an interesting thing to think about. One question I have: do you think it would totally undermine the kind of religious experiences you talk about if the reader is a Epicurean in the sense of being pretty convinced that the soul dissolves with the body? How much of the philosophical value of the book do you think is contingent on these sorts of religious/metaphysical commitments?
I could not really say. I mean, the book is largely about dharma--duty. I don't think karma and rebirth are necessarily inextricably linked to the idea of dharma. Jewish people have dharma of a kind--their duty to obey the covenant--and they don't really think much about the punishment or reward aspect of it. I think pagan religions in general take seriously the idea of man's duties to the Gods and to society, and they're less concerned by any reciprocal duties--a point of view that makes intuitive sense to me, personally.
Could you say more about what that religious experience actually consisted of? For instance, at about the age of 15 or 16 I read William Goldman's THE PRINCESS BRIDE, at around the same moment that I was thinking about evolution for the first time. I'd have to look up the exact quote (the internet is no help on this) but during one of the many extended asides about life not being fair the narrator has an epiphany that expecting life to be fair is the problem. "I felt like dancing," he says. And so did I. The pressure was off. There was nothing wrong with the universe. The disappointed idealist was dead, and I was a different person (or at least I tried to be) after that.
A more Great Books example would be the Book of Job from the Bible, which is the only one that ever spoke to me, and which I fundamentally disagreed with.
https://randallhayes.substack.com/p/this-is-not-a-sermon
I don't necessarily think I can describe it further. It's a very long book, that's composed mostly of debates about the nature of dharma. I think, for me, what's become intuitive is the idea that we have a cosmic destiny--a dharma--that sits at the intersection of social role and personal inclination, and that it's something you can intuit through questioning and self-examination. Definitely not something I can explain, nor necessarily something I expect to be able to convince other people about in a blog post =]
So not a full-on mystical "experience" with white light and visions and all that?
It did not include visual or auditory hallucinations, no
I did not mean that as a judgement. Much of what we experience is at least partially hallucinated. That's just how the brain works.
https://randallhayes.substack.com/p/the-mind-body-problem