I had a similar idea about reading the classics when I was young, and I think it was from movies in which a group of beautiful people are in a beautiful room talking about beautiful things and one of them quotes Catullus and another quotes Thoreau and that is the kind of person I wanted to be. The kind of person who might have ended up in the same room as Oscar Wilde.
Turns out I am not that kind of person but I am happy I made the effort.
Hmm. I don't know why (well, it's been 50-some years!) I got on a kick of reading the Great Books when I was in high school but it was definitely a self-directed thing, not anything particularly promoted from my public high school. Maybe it had to do with Tolkien, or maybe it was just that I read voraciously and I'd exhausted the non-classics available to me that I found interesting. Or perhaps it was reading Isaac Asimov's nonfiction and being influenced in that manner. But perhaps it was Tolkien and Lewis that got me into classics.
I do remember having a Scholastic book that had a recommended reading list for college so maybe that was it. That plus spending at least an hour riding the school bus in both directions (the joys of living in the country) was probably a factor. I remember working my way through Dante as we passed the stinking paper mill....
Counterpoint: I also was "forced" to read many books in school. Most of them, actually, I enjoyed, though many of those I would get more out of in later rereadings. (Data point: I am sixty-seven; I graduated high school in the Buy-Some-Tennial year of 1976.)
But some I detested.
Let's take one example: Evan S. Connell's "Mrs Bridge." A friend described our reaction perfectly. "Connell set out," he said, "to show us how dull and depressing this woman's life was. He succeeded admirably."
Fifteen years ago, for no reason I can remember, I picked up a copy of the book at Stacey's in San Francisco. I read it again and found it to be a delightful satire. In 1975 or 6, at 17 years of age, I literally did not have the context to "get" what Connell was doing.
It wasn't just assigned school texts; I was a member (well, founder) of the Los Altos High science fiction club, and our sponsor suggested that I read Charles R. Harness's novella "The Rose." I bounced off it. Ten years later I wept reading it.
I conclude that there are books you are just not ready for until a certain age.
Contrariwise, there are books that you can come to too late: I read Hesse's "Siddhartha" in my early 50s. Had I read it in my teens or 20s, it would doubtless have been life-changing; in my 50s, it was, well, interesting.
Incidentally: in the 1980s and early '90s, I, sometimes with my wife, sometimes with friends, spent a lot of time in that Emeryville Dennys. A friend and I plotted out a science fiction novel there, which I was to write; I determined to dedicate it to "Denny's waitresses everywhere, for kindness and coffee, without which this book would be impossible. Indeed, without coffee, I am frequently impossible."
While I suspect I would not have, there is, of course, no way to actually know that. As Aslan tells Lucy, "To know what would have happened, child? No. Nobody is ever told that." In more SFnal terms, the quantum eigensystem collapses in one way, and we don't know the possible outcomes of other collapses.
In other words: I see very little point in such contrafactual questions. It's difficult enough, at times, to learn from what has actually happened.
Catholic schools are intensely gossipy and I am certainly one of their more notable alumni (and probably one of their only trans graduates) so…probably yes!
You should send him a copy, and write a note saying "thank you for changing the course of my life!" I'm sure he'd get a kick out of that. Very "Mr. Holland's Opus" :')
Hmm now that you’re saying this, my memory feels like it might be suspect on this point. But I am fairly sure I learned about them both in this class and they both came somewhat early.
"I still haven’t read that much science fiction that was published after the year I graduated college. That’s why I’ve read Charles Stross but not Martha Wells."
You should *definitely* read Martha Wells!
I stand ready to assist your catch-up program for modern SF/F!
And I guess I really should start paying you for the privilege of reading your musings. Which are very entertaining.
My path to the great books led through Science Fiction, honestly. I don’t necessarily think it’s a common path, but Gene Wolfe was influenced by Proust and Melville, and Dan Simmons referenced Keats, and Ada Palmer plays with Victor Hugo and dozens of others. There are plenty of SF author — even very good ones — who don’t tie into the larger tradition, but the very best often do. And once you’ve exhausted most of what the genre has to offer and your standards have been elevated, it’s the only place to go. Though clearly this isn’t a universal experience.
While I suspect I would not have, there is, of course, no way to actually know that. As Aslan tells Lucy, "To know what would have happened, child? No. Nobody is ever told that." In more SFnal terms, the quantum eigensystem collapses in one way, and we don't know the possible outcomes of other collapses.
In other words: I see very little point in such contrafactual questions. It's difficult enough, at times, to learn from what has actually happened.
love the Americana contrast of reading Euripides in a Denny’s
I've driven by that Denny's for 45 years and it never occurred to me to go in and eat. Now I'm wondering what I've missed!
I mean if you’ve eaten in one Denny’s you’ve eaten in them all, but if you’re never been to one you should try it sometime!
"I will remember for the rest of my life reading Alcestis’s lament to her husband while I sat eating a Grand Slamwich in the Emeryville Denny’s."
I had a similar idea about reading the classics when I was young, and I think it was from movies in which a group of beautiful people are in a beautiful room talking about beautiful things and one of them quotes Catullus and another quotes Thoreau and that is the kind of person I wanted to be. The kind of person who might have ended up in the same room as Oscar Wilde.
Turns out I am not that kind of person but I am happy I made the effort.
Hmm. I don't know why (well, it's been 50-some years!) I got on a kick of reading the Great Books when I was in high school but it was definitely a self-directed thing, not anything particularly promoted from my public high school. Maybe it had to do with Tolkien, or maybe it was just that I read voraciously and I'd exhausted the non-classics available to me that I found interesting. Or perhaps it was reading Isaac Asimov's nonfiction and being influenced in that manner. But perhaps it was Tolkien and Lewis that got me into classics.
I do remember having a Scholastic book that had a recommended reading list for college so maybe that was it. That plus spending at least an hour riding the school bus in both directions (the joys of living in the country) was probably a factor. I remember working my way through Dante as we passed the stinking paper mill....
Thanks for these recollections :)
Counterpoint: I also was "forced" to read many books in school. Most of them, actually, I enjoyed, though many of those I would get more out of in later rereadings. (Data point: I am sixty-seven; I graduated high school in the Buy-Some-Tennial year of 1976.)
But some I detested.
Let's take one example: Evan S. Connell's "Mrs Bridge." A friend described our reaction perfectly. "Connell set out," he said, "to show us how dull and depressing this woman's life was. He succeeded admirably."
Fifteen years ago, for no reason I can remember, I picked up a copy of the book at Stacey's in San Francisco. I read it again and found it to be a delightful satire. In 1975 or 6, at 17 years of age, I literally did not have the context to "get" what Connell was doing.
It wasn't just assigned school texts; I was a member (well, founder) of the Los Altos High science fiction club, and our sponsor suggested that I read Charles R. Harness's novella "The Rose." I bounced off it. Ten years later I wept reading it.
I conclude that there are books you are just not ready for until a certain age.
Contrariwise, there are books that you can come to too late: I read Hesse's "Siddhartha" in my early 50s. Had I read it in my teens or 20s, it would doubtless have been life-changing; in my 50s, it was, well, interesting.
Incidentally: in the 1980s and early '90s, I, sometimes with my wife, sometimes with friends, spent a lot of time in that Emeryville Dennys. A friend and I plotted out a science fiction novel there, which I was to write; I determined to dedicate it to "Denny's waitresses everywhere, for kindness and coffee, without which this book would be impossible. Indeed, without coffee, I am frequently impossible."
Yes but would you have read Connell’s book later in life if it hadn’t been assigned earlier?
While I suspect I would not have, there is, of course, no way to actually know that. As Aslan tells Lucy, "To know what would have happened, child? No. Nobody is ever told that." In more SFnal terms, the quantum eigensystem collapses in one way, and we don't know the possible outcomes of other collapses.
In other words: I see very little point in such contrafactual questions. It's difficult enough, at times, to learn from what has actually happened.
Is Dr. Downey still alive? Does he know about your book/career?
Catholic schools are intensely gossipy and I am certainly one of their more notable alumni (and probably one of their only trans graduates) so…probably yes!
You should send him a copy, and write a note saying "thank you for changing the course of my life!" I'm sure he'd get a kick out of that. Very "Mr. Holland's Opus" :')
Petrarch before Dante?
Hmm now that you’re saying this, my memory feels like it might be suspect on this point. But I am fairly sure I learned about them both in this class and they both came somewhat early.
"I still haven’t read that much science fiction that was published after the year I graduated college. That’s why I’ve read Charles Stross but not Martha Wells."
You should *definitely* read Martha Wells!
I stand ready to assist your catch-up program for modern SF/F!
And I guess I really should start paying you for the privilege of reading your musings. Which are very entertaining.
Someday! I have been planning a catchup soon actually
I just got an email from Charlie Stross, re Bill Gates! I got roped into a beta-read of one of his novels years ago. It didn't go well.
My path to the great books led through Science Fiction, honestly. I don’t necessarily think it’s a common path, but Gene Wolfe was influenced by Proust and Melville, and Dan Simmons referenced Keats, and Ada Palmer plays with Victor Hugo and dozens of others. There are plenty of SF author — even very good ones — who don’t tie into the larger tradition, but the very best often do. And once you’ve exhausted most of what the genre has to offer and your standards have been elevated, it’s the only place to go. Though clearly this isn’t a universal experience.
While I suspect I would not have, there is, of course, no way to actually know that. As Aslan tells Lucy, "To know what would have happened, child? No. Nobody is ever told that." In more SFnal terms, the quantum eigensystem collapses in one way, and we don't know the possible outcomes of other collapses.
In other words: I see very little point in such contrafactual questions. It's difficult enough, at times, to learn from what has actually happened.
Great post. Thank you!
I’m so excited for your book!!