I mean I'm a gay man who has precisely zero interest in the world of heterosexual dating and romance, but even I like the idea of your story and I would read that book.
I agree — grab 2 or 3 friends for drinks and keep spinning this idea. You have the makings of a very dark comic novel. That app could take him anywhere, so could the older women. Specific requests. Improbable situations. Throw in a three-way, the guy turns out to be someone from his office. It could get messier with each chapter. And do not give it a happy ending but one that’s fitting and original.
The braiding of platform, subject, and form here are fantastic. It's clever and O. Henryish when it comes full-circle at the end, and it was seeming to me like a well-practised exercise at that point, but that small bit of acid in the final line makes the whole thing deeper. Shows the sort of scathing undercurrent he might have been missing in this entire friendship--and then I realized you hadn't mentioned if the narrator was a man or woman, which itself adds a terrific layer of ambiguity.
I'm excited to see where you go in deploying (if I remember correctly) these 40ish tactics!
I like reading about affable losers, but why must they all be writers? I have no desire to read about how much being a writer sucks and nobody else does, either.
1) The twist here is directly (and thematically) relevant to what came before. I didn't expect it, but it made sense in retrospect.
2) The "notes" provided are, really, a completely different story. A better one, and one that could still have lots of character interiority and complexity, but in the end just a different story.
3) Empathy is a tricky thing. Some writers try way too hard to make their characters empathetic, when really I just want a character who's interesting. Also most readers probably try hard themselves to empathize, so you can probably get more mileage out of NOT making the characters empathetic, and letting the reader do the work instead. The ones I have the hardest time empathizing with are when I can tell the author wants me to empathize but has written someone terrible, possibly by accident.
I went to an Edgar Rice Burroughs panel at HeroesCon a couple weeks ago in Charlotte. One of the main complaints that genre people (especially pulp and sword & sorcery types) have about modern fiction is that it spends so much time on character development and introspection that nothing happens, plot-wise. They tend to like gore and sex, too, but the main thing is a story that moves.
I found this phrase so well-crafted haha. Your story sounds like a great read. I think the key is that the guy has to be a doer. I recently posted about having re-read You, and you said women loved Joe, and my response was that he may be psychotic and mopey and angry, but he's at least relentlessly devoted to Beck and full of action. That's like 90% of what a likable romantic male lead needs. The 10% insanity can be forgiven then.
>“But we haven’t actually heard it!” he said. “There haven’t been any successful novels recently >about angry white sexless losers!”
It's a slush-only genre, or was until recently. Twenty-five years ago, BDSM-tinged sex melodramas featuring heterosexual couples was a slush-only genre too, and then thanks to fan fiction and micropublishing broke through into the mainstream. We're seeing the same today with this incel loser business.
There are also even slush-only short story genres, e.g., a creepy old pedophile bum corners a precious young girl...BUT turns out she's a vampire or serial murderer or avenging angel and kills the pedo. The moral of the story is: don't molest children.
I was so sure this was going to be a response to the new review of the ARX-Han novel (which was published a while ago, I realize) but no!
Seriously, though, the twist ending of Teddy Wayne’s “Loner” from back in 2016 (which I think ARX-Han or another TMRish guy might have praised which caused me to read it) is sort of O. Henry ish in the way that this one is and my reaction wasn’t, oh what a hacky end to something that was otherwise disturbing and interesting, it was more like, nice job Teddy, you actually wrote an ending to your novel unlike most modern literary fiction which doesn’t deign to have an ending!
It would be kind of funny for you to rewrite the ending of “The Guest” (which I remember you criticized for having no ending) to have an O. Henry style twist…
The only thing funnier than this story is the comment where the guy asks why the character deserves a bad ending. I laughed too many times while reading this, thank you!
Late to the party, but I would also read a novella of 'The Older Man'.
I went to read "The Poet and The Peasant" after reading this, and I'm impressed by your update.
I like how you took the themes and sort of the twist of the original story, then used it to build on the themes you were exploring earlier in your essays about the whole literary fiction scene. It's neat.
Ironically, it feels authentically "you," despite being a riff on a story about people being wrong about how much they actually want (or even recognize!) authenticity. So...I guess it matches the version of "you" in my mind? Very on brand! 😆
I mean I'm a gay man who has precisely zero interest in the world of heterosexual dating and romance, but even I like the idea of your story and I would read that book.
I agree — grab 2 or 3 friends for drinks and keep spinning this idea. You have the makings of a very dark comic novel. That app could take him anywhere, so could the older women. Specific requests. Improbable situations. Throw in a three-way, the guy turns out to be someone from his office. It could get messier with each chapter. And do not give it a happy ending but one that’s fitting and original.
The braiding of platform, subject, and form here are fantastic. It's clever and O. Henryish when it comes full-circle at the end, and it was seeming to me like a well-practised exercise at that point, but that small bit of acid in the final line makes the whole thing deeper. Shows the sort of scathing undercurrent he might have been missing in this entire friendship--and then I realized you hadn't mentioned if the narrator was a man or woman, which itself adds a terrific layer of ambiguity.
I'm excited to see where you go in deploying (if I remember correctly) these 40ish tactics!
I like reading about affable losers, but why must they all be writers? I have no desire to read about how much being a writer sucks and nobody else does, either.
Hear, hear.
I quite enjoyed this! A couple general reactions:
1) The twist here is directly (and thematically) relevant to what came before. I didn't expect it, but it made sense in retrospect.
2) The "notes" provided are, really, a completely different story. A better one, and one that could still have lots of character interiority and complexity, but in the end just a different story.
3) Empathy is a tricky thing. Some writers try way too hard to make their characters empathetic, when really I just want a character who's interesting. Also most readers probably try hard themselves to empathize, so you can probably get more mileage out of NOT making the characters empathetic, and letting the reader do the work instead. The ones I have the hardest time empathizing with are when I can tell the author wants me to empathize but has written someone terrible, possibly by accident.
I went to an Edgar Rice Burroughs panel at HeroesCon a couple weeks ago in Charlotte. One of the main complaints that genre people (especially pulp and sword & sorcery types) have about modern fiction is that it spends so much time on character development and introspection that nothing happens, plot-wise. They tend to like gore and sex, too, but the main thing is a story that moves.
The dudes who would have read Burroughs (and Howard and Lovecraft) are now playing video games.
"So she sends him out onto the internet"
I found this phrase so well-crafted haha. Your story sounds like a great read. I think the key is that the guy has to be a doer. I recently posted about having re-read You, and you said women loved Joe, and my response was that he may be psychotic and mopey and angry, but he's at least relentlessly devoted to Beck and full of action. That's like 90% of what a likable romantic male lead needs. The 10% insanity can be forgiven then.
>“But we haven’t actually heard it!” he said. “There haven’t been any successful novels recently >about angry white sexless losers!”
It's a slush-only genre, or was until recently. Twenty-five years ago, BDSM-tinged sex melodramas featuring heterosexual couples was a slush-only genre too, and then thanks to fan fiction and micropublishing broke through into the mainstream. We're seeing the same today with this incel loser business.
There are also even slush-only short story genres, e.g., a creepy old pedophile bum corners a precious young girl...BUT turns out she's a vampire or serial murderer or avenging angel and kills the pedo. The moral of the story is: don't molest children.
Meta ... A story about a guy trying to tell a story, and the story about the guy is based on an earlier story about a similar guy.
1. Your story is good.
2. The novel in your story sounds like it would be good, despite the naysayers, and
3. The O. Henry story sounds good, too.
I would totally read this book and think it was a great story tho im baffled why you think the guy deserved the bad ending.
I was so sure this was going to be a response to the new review of the ARX-Han novel (which was published a while ago, I realize) but no!
Seriously, though, the twist ending of Teddy Wayne’s “Loner” from back in 2016 (which I think ARX-Han or another TMRish guy might have praised which caused me to read it) is sort of O. Henry ish in the way that this one is and my reaction wasn’t, oh what a hacky end to something that was otherwise disturbing and interesting, it was more like, nice job Teddy, you actually wrote an ending to your novel unlike most modern literary fiction which doesn’t deign to have an ending!
It would be kind of funny for you to rewrite the ending of “The Guest” (which I remember you criticized for having no ending) to have an O. Henry style twist…
The only thing funnier than this story is the comment where the guy asks why the character deserves a bad ending. I laughed too many times while reading this, thank you!
This was fun. Makes me want to read O. Henry again.
My love affair with O'Henry began at an early age (my mother adores his writing) and I've shared it with my boys.
Thanks for this great little escape.
Late to the party, but I would also read a novella of 'The Older Man'.
I went to read "The Poet and The Peasant" after reading this, and I'm impressed by your update.
I like how you took the themes and sort of the twist of the original story, then used it to build on the themes you were exploring earlier in your essays about the whole literary fiction scene. It's neat.
Ironically, it feels authentically "you," despite being a riff on a story about people being wrong about how much they actually want (or even recognize!) authenticity. So...I guess it matches the version of "you" in my mind? Very on brand! 😆
That was a ride! Excellently written. I’m jealous.
The female mind find excitement in dangers. Anyone suspiciously nice is immediately creepy. That's my tip